[Oisf-users] Improved PF_RING support, please test!
Joshua White
josh at securemind.org
Thu Mar 10 19:33:34 UTC 2011
Victor this system has the following:
Intel E10G41AT2 10Gbps Ethernet Adapter
4 x 6 Core CPU's Running at 2.6GHz AMD Opterons (24 Cores)
64GB of RAM
7x 300GB SAS HD's In a Stripe using 2 x ARC-1680 8 port SAS RAID adapters
Traffic was from a mirror port on one of our facility switches. The traffic came
primarily from a number of businesses in one of our facilities that we support
internet connectivity for. Fairly standard buisiness profile. All to the
internet, a handfull of VPN's, a lot of IM, SMTP, a bit of video conferencing,
a decent amount of file transferes, ect.
Ruleset used were:
- emerging-attack_response.rules
- emerging-dos.rules
- emerging-exploit.rules
- emerging-game.rules
- emerging-malware.rules
- emerging-policy.rules
- emerging-scan.rules
- emerging-virus.rules
- emerging-voip.rules
- emerging-web.rules
- emerging-web_client.rules
- emerging-web_server.rules
- emerging-web_specific_apps.rules
- emerging-user_agents.rules
- emerging-current_events.rules
Hope that helps,
Josh
On Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:55:51 am you wrote:
> Thanks for testing Josh. Are you able to share some details of your
> hardware, traffic profile and rulesets?
>
> Thanks!
> Victor
>
> On 03/10/2011 04:44 PM, Joshua White wrote:
> > We've now tested with 128 threads, CPU usage maxes around 99% with a
> > 2Gbps stream. ~11GB of RAM used, 10GB of Virtual Memory reserved per
> > instance.
> >
> > The sweet spot, at least for us, seems to be around 96 threads which
> > loads the CPUs at about 50%. Not bad for a solid fully saturated 2Gbps
> > stream.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:04:00 pm Victor Julien wrote:
> >> Weird, I just tested it and it works. I did:
> >>
> >> dkms remove -m pf_ring -v 4 --all
> >> edit /usr/src/pf_ring-4/linux/pf_ring.h to set CLUSTER_LEN to 32
> >> dkms add -m pf_ring -v 4
> >> dkms build -m pf_ring -v 4
> >> dkms install -m pf_ring -v 4
> >>
> >> then I updated my suricata.yaml to set threads to 32
> >>
> >> started pf_ring, didn't work.
> >>
> >> rmmod pf_ring
> >> modprobe pf_ring
> >>
> >> then it worked.... 32 pf_ring recv threads (note that the last digit of
> >> the thread name is cut off, I'll fix that soon)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Victor
> >>
> >> On 03/09/2011 05:58 PM, josh at securemind.org wrote:
> >>> Yes, this is with equally increased CLUSTER_LEN 16 and 24 ...
> >>>
> >>> Other suggestions,
> >>>
> >>> Josh
> >>>
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>> Subject: Re: [Oisf-users] Improved PF_RING support, please test!
> >>> From: Victor Julien <victor at inliniac.net
> >>> <mailto:victor at inliniac.net>> Date: Wed, March 09, 2011 11:45 am
> >>> To: josh at securemind.org <mailto:josh at securemind.org>
> >>> Cc: oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org
> >>> <mailto:oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> Is this with the increased cluster len?
> >>>
> >>> From earlier conversation:
> >>>
> >>> "
> >>> This value is hardset in kernel/linux/pf_ring.h
> >>> #define CLUSTER_LEN 8
> >>> "
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Victor
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 03/09/2011 05:40 PM, josh at securemind.org
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:josh at securemind.org> wrote:
> >>> > Ok, so the patch never put the thread option into the
> >>> > suricata.yaml. I reapplied the patch and all was good.
> >>> >
> >>> > - Ran with 8 threads, everything worked great, CPU utilization
> >>> > seems much better 2Gbps of traffic and load was less then 7%
> >>> > across all CPU's - Ran with 16 threads, failed
> >>> > - Ran with 24 threads, failed
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:09 - (log-droplog.c:182) <Info>
> >>> > (LogDropLogInitCtx) -- Drop log output initialized, filename:
> >>> > drop.log [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:09 - (source-pfring.c:167)
> >>> > <Info> (PfringLoadConfig) -- Going to use 16 PF_RING receive
> >>> > threads [725] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:09 - (source-pfring.c:309)
> >>> > <Info> (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring1) Using PF_RING
> >>> > v.4.6.0, interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [727] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:09 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring3) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [728] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:09 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring4) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [730] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:09 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring6) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [731] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring7) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [726] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring2) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [729] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring5) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:344) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream "max_sessions": 262144
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:356) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream "prealloc_sessions": 32768
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:366) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream "memcap": 33554432
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:373) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream "midstream" session pickups:
> >>> > disabled [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:381) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream "async_oneside": disabled
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:390) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream.reassembly
> >>>
> >>> <http://stream.reassembly> <http://stream.reassembly>
> >>> <http://stream.reassembly>>;
> >>>
> >>> > "memcap": 67108864
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:410) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream.reassembly
> >>>
> >>> <http://stream.reassembly> <http://stream.reassembly>
> >>> <http://stream.reassembly>>;
> >>>
> >>> > "depth": 1048576
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (stream-tcp.c:421) <Info>
> >>> > (StreamTcpInitConfig) -- stream."inline": disabled
> >>> > [734] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (source-pfring.c:309) <Info>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- (RecvPfring1) Using PF_RING v.4.6.0,
> >>> > interface eth0, cluster-id 99
> >>> > [732] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (source-pfring.c:303) <Error>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- [ERRCODE:
> >>> > SC_ERR_PF_RING_SET_CLUSTER_FAILED(37)] - pfring_set_cluster
> >>> > returned -1 for cluster-id: 99
> >>> > [733] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (source-pfring.c:303) <Error>
> >>> > (ReceivePfringThreadInit) -- [ERRCODE:
> >>> > SC_ERR_PF_RING_SET_CLUSTER_FAILED(37)] - pfring_set_cluster
> >>> > returned -1 for cluster-id: 99
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (tm-threads.c:1475) <Error>
> >>> > (TmThreadWaitOnThreadInit) -- [ERRCODE: SC_ERR_THREAD_INIT(49)] -
> >>>
> >>> thread
> >>>
> >>> > "RecvPfring8" closed on initialization.
> >>> > [722] 9/3/2011 -- 11:35:10 - (suricata.c:1245) <Error> (main) --
> >>> > [ERRCODE: SC_ERR_INITIALIZATION(45)] - Engine initialization
> >>> > failed, aborting...
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Josh
> >>> >
> >>> > -------- Original Message --------
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Oisf-users] Improved PF_RING support, please test!
> >>> > From: Victor Julien <victor at inliniac.net
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:victor at inliniac.net> <mailto:victor at inliniac.net>>
> >>>
> >>> > Date: Wed, March 09, 2011 10:47 am
> >>> > To: oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>> >
> >>> > Josh, are you setting the pfring.threads <http://pfring.threads>
> >>>
> >>> <http://pfring.threads> <http://pfring.threads>>;
> >>>
> >>> > option in your suricata.yaml?
> >>> > It appears you have it either not set or set to 1. Set it like
> >>> > this:
> >>> >
> >>> > # PF_RING configuration. for use with native PF_RING support
> >>> > # for more info see http://www.ntop.org/PF_RING.html
> >>> > pfring:
> >>> > # Number of receive threads (>1 will enable experimental flow
> >>> > pinned # runmode)
> >>> > threads: 8
> >>> >
> >>> > # Default interface we will listen on.
> >>> > interface: eth0
> >>> >
> >>> > # Default clusterid. PF_RING will load balance packets based on
> >>> > flow. # All threads/processes that will participate need to have
> >>> > the same # clusterid.
> >>> > cluster-id: 99
> >>> >
> >>> > # Default PF_RING cluster type. PF_RING can load balance per flow
> >>> > or per hash.
> >>> > # This is only supported in versions of PF_RING > 4.1.1.
> >>> > cluster-type: cluster_round_robin
> >>> >
> >>> > If I set it to 8 pf_ring reports 8 rings...
> >>> >
> >>> > Cheers,
> >>> > Victor
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On 03/09/2011 12:06 AM, jwhite at everisinc.com
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:jwhite at everisinc.com>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:jwhite at everisinc.com> wrote:
> >>> > > I've set it to 24, recompiled and it seems to be running ok,
> >>> > > (as in
> >>> >
> >>> > it's
> >>> >
> >>> > > handling 2Gbps worth of packets) but I'm unable to get the
> >>> > > number of rings to report as anything but 1. Have I missed
> >>> > > somthing or is
> >>>
> >>> trully
> >>>
> >>> > > not working correctly. I've run it based on on flow and as
> >>> > > packet... still no go.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > EV-SVR-006:~$ cat /proc/net/pf_ring/info
> >>> > > PF_RING Version : 4.6.0 ($Revision: exported$)
> >>> > > Ring slots : 32768
> >>> > > Slot version : 12
> >>> > > Capture TX : No [RX only]
> >>> > > IP Defragment : No
> >>> > > Transparent mode : Yes (mode 0)
> >>> > > Total rings : 1
> >>> > > Total plugins : 0
> >>> > >
> >>> > > - josh
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ---
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Date: 3/8/2011 -- 16:52:58 (uptime: 0d, 00h 03m 21s)
> >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > > -- -- Counter | TM Name | Value
> >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > > -- -- decoder.pkts <http://decoder.pkts> <http://decoder.pkts>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.pkts>>; <http://decoder.pkts >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Decode1 | 16416387
> >>> > > decoder.bytes <http://decoder.bytes> <http://decoder.bytes>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.bytes>>; <http://decoder.bytes >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Decode1 | 988040217
> >>> > > decoder.ipv4 | Decode1 | 16461043
> >>> > > decoder.ipv6 | Decode1 | 700
> >>> > > decoder.ethernet <http://decoder.ethernet>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.ethernet> <http://decoder.ethernet>>;
> >>> <http://decoder.ethernet
> >>>
> >>> > >; |
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Decode1 | 16406387
> >>> > > decoder.raw | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.sll <http://decoder.sll> <http://decoder.sll>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.sll>>; <http://decoder.sll >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.tcp <http://decoder.tcp> <http://decoder.tcp>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.tcp>>; <http://decoder.tcp >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Decode1 | 16406097
> >>> > > decoder.udp | Decode1 | 1130
> >>> > > decoder.icmpv4 | Decode1 | 3
> >>> > > decoder.icmpv6 | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.ppp | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.pppoe | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.gre <http://decoder.gre> <http://decoder.gre>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.gre>>; <http://decoder.gre >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.vlan | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > decoder.avg_pkt_size | Decode1 | 60.012753
> >>> > > decoder.max_pkt_size <http://decoder.max_pkt_size>
> >>>
> >>> <http://decoder.max_pkt_size> <http://decoder.max_pkt_size>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://decoder.max_pkt_size >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Decode1 | 382
> >>> > > defrag.ipv4.fragments <http://defrag.ipv4.fragments>
> >>>
> >>> <http://defrag.ipv4.fragments> <http://defrag.ipv4.fragments>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://defrag.ipv4.fragments >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > defrag.ipv4.reassembled <http://defrag.ipv4.reassembled>
> >>>
> >>> <http://defrag.ipv4.reassembled> <http://defrag.ipv4.reassembled>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://defrag.ipv4.reassembled >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > defrag.ipv4.timeouts | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > defrag.ipv6.fragments <http://defrag.ipv6.fragments>
> >>>
> >>> <http://defrag.ipv6.fragments> <http://defrag.ipv6.fragments>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://defrag.ipv6.fragments >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > defrag.ipv6.reassembled <http://defrag.ipv6.reassembled>
> >>>
> >>> <http://defrag.ipv6.reassembled> <http://defrag.ipv6.reassembled>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://defrag.ipv6.reassembled >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > defrag.ipv6.timeouts | Decode1 | 0
> >>> > > tcp.sessions <http://tcp.sessions> <http://tcp.sessions>
> >>>
> >>> <http://tcp.sessions>>; <http://tcp.sessions >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Stream1 | 844100
> >>> > > tcp.ssn_memcap_drop | Stream1 | 0
> >>> > > tcp.pseudo <http://tcp.pseudo> <http://tcp.pseudo>
> >>>
> >>> <http://tcp.pseudo>>; <http://tcp.pseudo >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Stream1 | 0
> >>> > > tcp.segment_memcap_drop <http://tcp.segment_memcap_drop>
> >>>
> >>> <http://tcp.segment_memcap_drop> <http://tcp.segment_memcap_drop>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://tcp.segment_memcap_drop >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Stream1 | 0
> >>> > > tcp.stream_depth_reached <http://tcp.stream_depth_reached>
> >>>
> >>> <http://tcp.stream_depth_reached>
> >>> <http://tcp.stream_depth_reached>>;
> >>>
> >>> > <http://tcp.stream_depth_reached >; |
> >>> >
> >>> > > Stream1 | 0
> >>> > > detect.alert <http://detect.alert> <http://detect.alert>
> >>>
> >>> <http://detect.alert>>; <http://detect.alert >; |
> >>>
> >>> > > Detect | 24768
> >>> > >
> >>> > > - Josh
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Tuesday, March 08, 2011 04:25:04 am Victor Julien wrote:
> >>> > > Thanks Luca, I guess we'll find out soon enough if ppl run into
> >>> > > perf issues... I think we have results for 16 and 24 soon.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Cheers,
> >>> > > Victor
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On 03/08/2011 08:42 AM, Luca Deri wrote:
> >>> > >> Victor
> >>> > >> this is just a define you can increase. However note that
> >>> > >> clusters
> >>> >
> >>> > were
> >>> >
> >>> > >> designed to handle a few apps, thus if you increase the value
> >>> > >> to a
> >>> >
> >>> > much
> >>> >
> >>> > >> higher value, we better review the code and see if it is still
> >>> >
> >>> > efficient
> >>> >
> >>> > >> enough for your purposes
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Regards Luca
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Victor Julien wrote:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Thanks for figuring that out Will!
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Luca, can we have a higher (or no) limit? I keep hearing
> >>> > >> stories
> >>> >
> >>> > of ppl
> >>> >
> >>> > >> with 24 cores :)
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Cheers,
> >>> > >> Victor
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> On 03/07/2011 07:28 PM, Will Metcalf wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>> It seems that the maximum is 8 threads here. Not sure if
> >>> > >>>>>> that
> >>> >
> >>> > can be
> >>> >
> >>> > >>>>>> set higher if the number of slots in pfring are increased.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone
> >>>
> >>> > >>>>>> try that?
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> This value is hardset in kernel/linux/pf_ring.h
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> #define CLUSTER_LEN 8
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> Modify accordingly, maybe Luca would be kind enough to
> >>>
> >>> increase the
> >>>
> >>> > >>>>> default value?
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> Regards,
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> Will
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Victor Julien
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> <victor at inliniac.net <mailto:victor at inliniac.net>
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:victor at inliniac.net>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:victor at inliniac.net>>
> >>> >
> >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> On 03/07/2011 06:15 PM, Chris Wakelin wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>>> On 28/02/11 20:23, Victor Julien wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>>>> Hey guys,
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> I know a couple of you are running PF_RING in a high
> >>> > >>>>>>>> speed environment. The attached patch means to improve
> >>> > >>>>>>>> it's
> >>> >
> >>> > performance.
> >>> >
> >>> > >>>>>>>> It adds a new option called "pfring.threads" that
> >>> > >>>>>>>> controls the number of reader threads the pfring code
> >>> > >>>>>>>> uses. I've tested (lightly) with 1, 4 and 8 which all
> >>> > >>>>>>>> worked fine. There are
> >>>
> >>> some
> >>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> more improvements, including the removal of one memcpy
> >>> > >>>>>>>> per packet...
> >>> > >>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>> OK, giving it a go with 4 threads ...
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> It seems that the maximum is 8 threads here. Not sure if
> >>> > >>>>>> that
> >>> >
> >>> > can be
> >>> >
> >>> > >>>>>> set higher if the number of slots in pfring are increased.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone
> >>>
> >>> > >>>>>> try that?
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>> > >>>>>> Victor
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>>>>> Oisf-users mailing list
> >>> > >>>>>> Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>> >
> >>> > >> <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> http://lists.openinfosecfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/oisf-users
> >>>
> >>> > >> ---
> >>> > >> Keep looking, don't settle - Steve Jobs
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Oisf-users mailing list
> >>> > Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>> >
> >>> > > <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>> >
> >>> > http://lists.openinfosecfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/oisf-user
> >>> > s
> >>> >
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Oisf-users mailing list
> >>> > > Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>> >
> >>> > > http://lists.openinfosecfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/oisf-us
> >>> > > er s
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > ---------------------------------------------
> >>> > Victor Julien
> >>> > http://www.inliniac.net/
> >>> > PGP: http://www.inliniac.net/victorjulien.asc
> >>> > ---------------------------------------------
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Oisf-users mailing list
> >>> > Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org
> >>>
> >>> <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>>
> >>> > <mailto:Oisf-users at openinfosecfoundation.org>
> >>> > http://lists.openinfosecfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/oisf-user
> >>> > s
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